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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,210
In Reply To
Drax the Legend

Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,188
Subj: Re: You had to go there
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 at 02:26:53 pm CDT (Viewed 175 times)
Reply Subj: Those are not tears you’re drinking, 'tis sweat!
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 at 07:51:37 pm CDT (Viewed 209 times)

    My hirsute buttocks have been drenched since I watched the last episode, in fear of the effort it would take to compose my thoughts and give a coherent answer to the very things you require of me here...

And you were right to be afraid!

    It's actually funny how you were in agreement with me about this turn of events before, but now that it's Arya's moment, no, now I have to explain it to you - how it's even especially bad because of Arya's involvement, damn ye mrpo !

Would I have preferred the Night King to survive and terrorize King's Landing. Absolutely. Does it ruin the episode for me that he didn't. Nope. Going in, I figured the NK had AT BEST a 50% chance of surviving the episode so his fate wasn’t unexpected.

    Here we have fans of a creation, the showrunners, who were extremely fond of certain parts of Martin's creation, though not so keen on others, and now that they have been mostly freed from the restraints of his story, they are favoring their proclivities with no regard to how they actually contradict and lessen the earlier parts of the narrative they didn't care for to begin with.

Agree to a point. The story has moved away from the court intrigue, who can we marry off to whom to establish alliances aspect that dominated much of the early seasons. I do miss that more human element of the show, which has been substituted for more typical medieval fantasy genre-oriented spectacle. In a way, this was inevitable as the story became more and more focused on mute magical villains.

    It's obvious now that everything I defended last season was bull. Everything was been geared towards where we are now, but I failed to notice the train moving from the original track.

Fans who get too caught up in what they want the story to be instead of what it is are doomed to lose their souls! GoT fan theories have run amuck and now people measure the show against their sometimes outlandish ideas instead of letting the story just be the story.

    "Broken beyond repair"... I guess there are still ways to salvage something, but at best it will be like a broken vase held together by duct tape. What I mean is, they need to either find a way to bring the threat of the Walkers back or they actually do the speculated twist that they were actually the "good guys", with someone else being the story's true baddie, like R'hllor or the 3-Eyed Raven or someone. There are still various hints and leaks and press talk that want us to believe that some pretty major stuff will happen in episode 5, but hey, I also believed the hype for the battle we last saw...

Nah. That stuff is too twisty. How can the White Walkers be good guys? They massacre wildlings. R’hllor’s not even a real character, and the story has done not nearly enough with Bran to justify turning him into a grave threat to the world.

    -Valyrial steel should not work after the NK tanked a direct blast of dragonfire (or at least not be that effective).

Eh, the White Walkers are magical beings. You’re trying to apply rules that aren’t that clear or specific.

    -The other Walkers should not have been affected by NK's death.

That they would be affected was established last season.

    -Arya is not the one the prophecies spoke of.

Either the prophecies are wrong, which is no big deal, or maybe they’re not and they just need more clarification. In any case, prophecies are a tired trope in the fantasy genre that people need to put less stock in.

    -Pretty much the arcs of Jon, Stannis, Melisandre, Bran, Daenerys even, have been rendered meaningless (also true for a lot of the characters around them).

Huh? There’s a lot more to Jon than dealing with the NK – like overcoming his apparently being a bastard to ascend to Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch and his true parentage being revealed making him the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Stannis was always a red herring. Melisandre was pivotal in this past episode, not meaningless. Bran’s arc turned out to be more about the Night King and the White Walkers and less so about Bran himself and so his arc was not meaningless. He also gave Arya the dagger that finished the job. Daenerys’ arc is the most unaffected of all except that she lost her Dothraki forces. As she noted to Sansa, Jon waylaid her, but her ultimate purpose always lay elsewhere.

    -The overall premise of the narrative has been turned on its head.

To an extent but from a drama standpoint, Cersei, a well developed human character, was always going to trump the Night King in importance. As anticlimactic as taking out the NK first might feel, it’s less anticlimactic than taking out Cersei first.

    -Lord Eddard Stark lost.


    Did you see the Dothraki charge? The only reason they did that was because it served their desire to get a cool "lights off" scene that was supposed to fill the characters watching, and thus us, with dread for the oncoming onslaught after a fleeting sense of elevation. And sure, it worked, but if you’re gonna go that way, just push all the way and have the damn very first charge be the now risen Dothraki galloping against the Unsullied ranks – now that would have been a scene truly worth the stupidity of it all!

Agreed that would have been more spectacular. And while the Dothraki charge was stupid, that’s just how the Dothraki fight – they charge with horses. They would never have accepted cowering behind castle walls waiting for the enemy to come. That would have been even more logistically wrong.

    They also clearly wanted to get a major part of Daenerys' forces out for Cersei's sake (most everything has seemingly been designed with that clash in mind), and since the Dothraki have no actual character representing them (and well, probably are a pain to feature with all dem horses and stuff), they were the best candidate to be written out.

Production saves money! Win/win!

    I mean, suicidal charge aside, did you even see how they were going to enter battle with their normal weapons? Arya conveniently happens on a box of spare obsidian daggers in the library, but no one bothered to properly arm their strongest military asset (dragons aside)?

I think it’s impossible that the production did not consider this and went with the idea that the Dothraki would simply refuse using weapons that aren’t their own. Basically, Dany brought the Dothraki into the worst possible type of fight for them where due to the magical nature of their foes, lots of flexibility is required and the Dothraki only fight one way.

    Heck, forget that, what about Theon's death? Edd's? Jorah's? Even Melisandre's? They specifically wanted them dead and tried to script somewhat meaningful deaths, but failed spectacularly, in that their deaths, as presented, were preventable in-world...

Not spectacular enough? I agree they could have been done better. Preventable? Some had to die or there would be no drama, so not preventable.

    What about them crypts, huh? We had a specimen transferred all the way to King’s Landing contained by just ropes and wood, yet them Starkdeads were punching through fartin' stone!

This is a big nit-picky. Maybe the crypts are made of clay?

    Again, if you're gonna go with moronic, go full way, give us a headless Ned skeleton chasing down his daughter, dammit \(pirate\) !

How would you ever know that it was Ned when he has no head? It seemed like the wights at least need a head to function in any case.

    And at the very least bring back Hodor and have him go see what's the hold-up with that door those other undead couldn't break to reach the Hound and Melisandre.

Yeah, missed opportunity.

    Speaking of which, they were apparently surrounded by defiant dead in that room, as not only Berric, who was politely given enough of a break to stumble inside, could seemingly ignore the NK, but dem others bodies too refused to heed dat call!

I’m not sure what you’re getting around here, but the Beric-cade blocks all zombies!

    There are so many things that they could have added if they just wanted a grand, shocking spectacle, from having Melisandre bring actual other Red Priests to help, like Kinvara

No, there have been too many last minute rescues.

    and the damn Walkers entering the fray, since they were all going to die anyway

Which I desired as well in my original post. Still from a purely strategic point, it makes sense that they didn’t. If the Walkers put themselves in danger, they put thousands of their wights in danger. It’s like Ramsay refusing to fight Jon, why would he when he has the superior numbers.

    to the NK besting Jon in an actual duel

Well, the series has been good at upending expectations like this. Jaime and Ned never finished their duel properly because of interference. Jaime never got into another true swordfight when he was 100% in the series before losing his hand. Renly never got to engage his forces because a shadow killed him. Jon vs. the NK is one more cliché upended. We’ll see if they make an exception for Cleganebowl.

    and Bran warging into the panicked dragons!

Yeah, they messed up here. Bran needed to be doing something useful aside from documenting the action with ravens. My own preference is him enlisting Nymeria and her wolf pack. If they attacked the WW and gave Arya her opening, that would have been even more dramatic.

    Why even give us the expected deus ending, just with the unexpected character? Why not just go where you've lead the narrative and fookin' kill everyone, huh?! At worst, just let Jon and/or Daenerys with their dragons escape and have them agonize about joining whatever stand Cersei ends up making... I seriously would have been 100% behind such twists and wonders, I tells ya!

No one would have been satisfied except you with everyone dying except Jon and Dany!

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