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Post By
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,822
In Reply To
Nathan Summers

Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,294
Subj: Re: Clive Barker's Hellraiser
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 at 01:46:00 pm CST (Viewed 69 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Clive Barker's Hellraiser
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 02:01:38 am CST (Viewed 109 times)

Previous Post


    Quote:
    Not sure, it has been a while since I have read a Hellbound Heart.

Me too, but remember loving the cover to that novella.


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    From what I remember, the Scarlet Gospel's do not cover it either.

You're correct.


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    Given he made a way to attract beings from one version of Hell, it seems reason enough.

But that would mean his judgers finalising the sentence were fully aware of what he had done, and is it fair to expect they had that level of nouse/ insight into what the box really contained?


    Quote:
    In the films, LeMerchant is rarely mentioned outside of references to the box. Other than the fourth film, Hellraiser: Bloodlines that deals with him and his family directly. It is a messy film (although better than what follows). He is not imprisoned in that film.

Yep. I'm somewhat of a purist when it comes to the films and only recognise as true continuity what was presented in the eponymous film and none of its sequels.


    Quote:
    That said, what Barker intended in the movie series starts falling apart after the first film.

I remember (hence my executive decision above).


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    The second one is very good.

I agree but I just couldn't endorse it as canon.


    Quote:
    And in the Hellraiser comic Barker expanded on that mythology through the first bit of the run.

I missed those. How so?


    Quote:
    Although, there are more than the puzzle box in those comics. They each call to different centobites or different beings.

Did you know the original identity he intended for the Hell Priest (aka Pinhead)? Clue: it wasn't Captain Elliott Spencer. There are clues in the original novella but more importantly the film, and when I proposed them on a forum years ago, Clive personally reached out.

I am struggling with the quote system. Sorry for having to break it out like this.

"Me too, but remember loving the cover to that novella."

I have only seen one of them, havn't there been several? Which one are you referring to?


"But that would mean his judgers finalising the sentence were fully aware of what he had done, and is it fair to expect they had that level of nouse/ insight into what the box really contained?"

True, but given how little we know. It is a bit surprising that Hell did not punish him or drag him down in the first place. He was probably inspired by some sort of evil in the first place.

Given the cannon, it is possible that he made it and it drove him mad as well. He was punished for witchcraft or something after the fact. I am totally making that up but it would somewhat fit.


"Yep. I'm somewhat of a purist when it comes to the films and only recognise as true continuity what was presented in the eponymous film and none of its sequels."

I usually go with the first two as being pretty solid in terms of cannon. After that, they can be enjoyable but the complexity is lost.

I was always a bit taken that the centobites were demons but not really like one would think. And they seemed to be focused on order and rules, not just killing people. In their minds they were helping people experience more. In a twisted way. Angels to some and demons to others.



"I missed those. How so?"

I would recommend them. There are two halves but both are good. It keeps the cannon from the first two films. Barker wrote like the first half at least. Or was the co-writer. And the specticles are pretty big.

LeMerchant is not particularly special in those books. There are various objects that summon different sorts of centobites. They were made in various ways over time. And it involves Kirsty and some of the other survivors going around breaking them to close the connections. And also killing the centobites with very specific rituals.

All the while Elliot Spencer got out of the job of Hell Priest to quest for forgiveness, when in reality he is seeking power in an attempt to rule Hell.

It spills over into a war between two different Hells. Lust vs Rage. With Spencer the herald of one and Kirsty (the new Hell priest for a while) the other. It also involves Barker's other creations in paces. At least his detective guy.




"Did you know the original identity he intended for the Hell Priest (aka Pinhead)? Clue: it wasn't Captain Elliott Spencer. There are clues in the original novella but more importantly the film, and when I proposed them on a forum years ago, Clive personally reached out."


If I remember right the original description sounded female. I did not know if there was ever supposed to be a previous life, but I will believe you. I thought I remembered that coming up in the second movie and Doug Bradly having a bit of a say with it.

However, I would like to hear about it either way.

Have you seen the Leviathan movies? The documentaries on the making of Hellraiser? I debate on getting shudder to watch them, they were pretty pricey otherwise.




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