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The Avenger

Location: New Jersey
Member Since: Thu Dec 02, 2021
In Reply To

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: There is a problem with the question.
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 at 10:12:42 am EDT (Viewed 170 times)
Reply Subj: There is a problem with the question.
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 at 06:36:41 am EDT (Viewed 179 times)

    Classical music does not just mean symphonies and orchestras.

    It was a term coined specifically to refer to that type of music, created before the rise of the music industry i.e, before recording.

Do you have a link to where I can learn more about that? It has some plausibility, I'll grant you, since the modern understanding of "classical music" seems to have coalesced in the 19th century, which was the century the phonograph was invented - but the timing seems a little dicey, since the phonograph was invented in 1877, which was rather late in the 19th century.

    It was done by... snobs, who were less than thrilled about different types of music taking becoming popular with people. Especially sine music like Blues and Jazz have roots in American folk music. So, the common people were deciding the popularity of music, instead of former taste makers.

I can readily believe all of that. Got a link?

    So, it has more to do with when, not what.

I think also where. Classical music is the only category of Western music that didn't originate in the United States.

    Think of it like this, there is no new classic rock. The term specifically refers to music from the 50s-70s. Not even necessarily the 50s, or all of the 70s.

    The 80s and 90s are further from now than that classic rock era was when the term was coined, but people are not rushing to call music form those decades classic rock.

True. I actually like the comic book "age" model, applied to rock like so: Rock's Golden Age was the 50s; its Silver Age was the 60s and 70s; and its Bronze Age was the 80s. Rock then died and rose from the dead as modern heavy metal, a term I use to encompass the main variants, such as death metal, thrash metal, black metal, and doom metal.

    There are two interesting elements to this...

    1) It proved that those snobs were ultimately wrong. At the time classic music was being produced they looked down on folk music as being lesser, and and it being far more influential with it often being tied to cultural studies.

    Also, because Blues not only came from folk music, but was one of those early music types they wanted to brand as lesser, and became the most influential music ever.

    It spawned R & B, and Rock music. Adding more blues in varying forms gave us the Rolling Stones, and psychedelic, both of which were influences on early punk bands like MC5 and the Stooges, as well as early Metal like Steppen Wolf and Black Sabbath,

    Blues was also the roots of funk, which is what led to rap.

    Also country music came form folk music, which means that that the very music they thought as lesser became the most versatile and dominant form of music ever, through its decedents.

I don't think the snobs were wrong. They predicted with perfect accuracy that the music coming out of the United States would conquer Western culture. This is what they feared, and what they feared has come to pass. In fact, the music coming out of the United States even conquered the Middle and Far East, as evidenced by such phenomena as K-Pop, J-Pop, and I-Pop. BUT - and this is very important - the serpent eats its tail. People in the United States are avid consumers of popular music from all around the world.


    2) that similar versions of that type of gatekeeping would keep happening over time, in various degrees.

    Some of it was generational, with Greatest generation jazz nuts hating rock, those same baby boomers who defended rock hating their kids and rap, or pre-war jazz fans having contempt for the likes of Miles Davis and Coltrane and visa versa (look up the jazz term 'moldy fig')

I sometimes think all fans of any art form are predisposed to be snobs. What they like is beautiful, good and true. What they don't like is ugly, bad and false. The antidote is to force oneself to embrace eclecticism. I myself am an eclectic. There are pockets of popular music that nauseate me, but these are far outweighed by the vast bulk of popular music that I have learned to appreciate and enjoy. For me, at first, eclecticism was an act of self-discipline. It has now become second nature to me. I look for what is beautiful, good and true in any form of music that I hear.

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