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Ancient One 

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,925
In Reply To

Member Since: Thu Nov 11, 2021
Subj: Re: LGBD, please clarify this dispute
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 at 12:12:14 am EST (Viewed 181 times)
Reply Subj: Re: LGBD, please clarify this dispute
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 at 09:42:58 pm EST (Viewed 200 times)

    What the f*** difference does it make to my larger point: the people who believed in Zeus and the Greek gods had a primitive view of the cosmos, one that was not even solar system level?

ANOTHER goalpost move?

You said they thought the earth was flat, and now you've shifted to their view of the cosmos???

As a character in one of my favourite comedies said: "You twist and turn like a twisty, turney thing"

    Read the first sentence, you endless debater of stupid points.

Hey, your points may be stupid, but if you don't want to debate them, don't bring them up.


      You do understand that the 6th century BCE is earlier than the 2nd, right? By the 2nd century BCE the understanding was widespread.


    "Pythagoras in the 6th century BC and Parmenides in the 5th century stated that the Earth is spherical, and this view spread rapidly in the Greek world."

    I based my statement that a round earth didn't spread in Greece until the 6th or 5th century BC based on the above quote.

    Any other nitpicks I can clear up for you? This is all beside the point: the Romans (and people of that period) had a primitive view of the cosmos and how big it is.

Sorry, but you're just wrong. It was common knowledge. Sailors knew it was round because ships disappear hull first and sails last over the horizon, the earth casts a semicircular pattern on the moon and so on. We even have coins with an emperor with his foot on a globe earth.

    The God of Genesis 1 created the earth, the sky, the heavens, the stars, the moon, the animals, humans (i.e. the entire cosmos) but he's not all-powerful? Really? How can that not be interpreted as a 'creator' God until well after the earliest Bible stories were written? Were people dumber in Biblical times?

It's quite a complex subject, but I'll do my best to give a very potted history.

El was the creator god of the pantheon. Yaweh was a lesser god, a god of war. But Yaweh was a very highly regarded god in Judah (Israel in those days was divided into Israel in the North and Judah in the South). After Babylon invades Israel in 586 BCE and wrecks it's infrastructure the Kingdom of Judah basically takes over the whole shooting match. It's around this time the Torah is collected and edited, and the King and priests of Judah write El and other Canaanite gods out of their mythology (Though not entirely. Traces of them still remain) and ensure that their boy, Yaweh, gets top billing.

The Torah was assembled from many different stories and authors (Genesis 2 is written by a different author to Genesis 1, for example) and the editing process wasn't great (For instance Genesis 2 tells the creation story differently from Genesis 1). Yaweh becomes creator god, but he's still thought of in the way the vast majority of gods were thought of in ancient times. They weren't all powerful, omniscient nor omnipresent.

    Was Jesus human, or divine?

    Both. But he was first divine from outside the universe, and came in as human form. He's also part of the Trinity and so is connected simultaneously to the natural and supernatural. Those magic things he was doing (e.g., turning 5 loaves of bread into thousands of loaves) was drawing from a power outside the universe. This is totally different from any pantheistic viewpoint.

This is nothing more than Special Case Pleading. To be natural AND divine is gibberish when it's someone else's religion, but it's okay when it's your religion.

    But wow. It is sad that you don't understand the concept of the Trinity or are being willfully difficult. He preexisted the canvas, jumped into the canvas, and remained connected to the Trinity while in the canvas.

The he BY DEFINITION cannot be outside the canvas. But... He can't be, because he's omnipresent within the canvas. He can't be outside it.

Any way you want to slice this, it's a contradiction.

    How hard is this to understand? What's wrong with you? I know you hate religion and Christianity but holy damn. I don't know how anybody doesn't already know the viewpoint that I'm telling you.

I know this viewpoint very well indeed. I've been studying Christianity off and on for about thirty years. None of this is new ground to me.

    The Trinity! He's connected. You know: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? And how these three are one? And how the composite equals God?

But the trinity IS god. The same, but different (A contradiction in terms if ever I heard one).


      Okay. But how do you know that *you're* not misunderstanding what god is?

    All powerful and all knowing

But you are not. You're fallible and capable of error.

    Stop being difficult.

Yes, these are difficult questions. As I've said, apologists have been battling to reconcile the many, many contradictions and errors in the bible for millennia.

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