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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162


Just so zvelf knows, the seed for this thread was actually planted by Unstable Molecule and his reflections on Littlefinger's untimely death below (more on that later).


So, you are to assume that this is not the final season of the show. Which characters do you choose to keep alive for a next one? They can be as few as you like or up to half the surviving cast, so I would say a max of... 15?

You can just list your choices and be done with it, but if you have reasons for picking as you will, be my guest. You can even expand and regale us with the details of the roles they would be playing in this next season, the plot they would operate in, etc.

As a bonus, if you want, you can even revive one character from a past season.


Now, concerning Molecule's Baelish fetish, I cannot say I see his continued relevance. First of all, let's just agree that being smart cannot protect you from dropping your guard around people you have feelings for and trust. Sansa was a goal, not a mere pawn, so his heart wanted to trust her, creating the same weakness he took advantage of against the Starks in the past.

More importantly, while he always advanced his own goals while at it, he mostly influenced events at the behest of others. He himself was never a powerful player (I really like how Cersei made that point to him), relying on duplicity and the means others lent him. So this far in, seeing how he was not actually in command of a faction or surrounded by players susceptible or in need of his deceptive skills, his role in the story had effectively ended.

And no, the actual war the show was building to was not one Baelish had a part in initiating (in fact, unless I'm misremembering, I don't even think he realistically expected a war out of the Arryn thing)...


Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer


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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,715



I would keep the following:

Cersei Lannister. Because she is fit as f**k.Keep her as the primary antagonsist. However, allow her to keep the child, so there is a potential line of Lannister villians potentially in charge of the realm.The Mountain remains at her side, as does Qyburn. They are based in Casterly Rock, after the decimation of King's Landing. They retain control of the Westerlands, but are surrounded by enemies.

Sansa Stark. The North has been destroyed, so she has had to be pragmatic and has married Gendry (who is legitimised) to attain power, keep a realm for what remains in the Stormlands. In very shot succession, she has allied with Robin and is passing off her recently born son as Robin's. No one is sure who is the father. Gendry's Hand of the Queen is Davos Seaworth and his Lord Commander is Sandor Celegane who now wields Oathkeeper in respect of it's former owner.

Edmure Tully rules the Riverlands. Yara Greyjoy rules the Iron Island.
Sam is the Lord of the Reach, but has been made to marry a Tyrell under Sansa's instruction, which he hugley resents and he continues to see Gully on the sly. The Wildlings farm the reach and there is a strange friendship delveloping between himself and Tormund, who acts as his bodyguard.

Meanwhile, a new threat emerges from Sothoryos.






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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,934



    Quote:

    Now, concerning Molecule's Baelish fetish, I cannot say I see his continued relevance. First of all, let's just agree that being smart cannot protect you from dropping your guard around people you have feelings for and trust. Sansa was a goal, not a mere pawn, so his heart wanted to trust her, creating the same weakness he took advantage of against the Starks in the past.

Actually I have to agree - it feels like the narrative has moved beyond the need for Littlefinger to come back, so I doubt we'll see it happen.

Still, he knew Bran was on to him when Bran told him "chaos is a ladder." A short time later, Arya returned to Winterfell, revealed herself as a spooky assassin, and started giving Littlefinger the stink-eye. It would have been in-character for him to leave at that point so he didn't get caught in a trap.

Leaving would have been difficult (because if he leaves, presumably the Vale leaves with him, which wasn't going to happen). The Faceless Men angle was an elegant way out, even if I doubt it is going to happen. As for the love-for-Sansa motivation to stay - I don't buy it. This is a guy who just married her off to the Boltons. He didn't love Sansa, she was just another pawn on his board.


    Quote:

    And no, the actual war the show was building to was not one Baelish had a part in initiating (in fact, unless I'm misremembering, I don't even think he realistically expected a war out of the Arryn thing)...

On the contrary, he was a very active instigator of the Stark-Lannister conflict. The death of Jon Arryn brought Ned into King's Landing, as Baelish knew it would. While Ned was Hand, Baelish was actively convincing Ned to commit resources against Tywin in the Riverlands. And in the end, Baelish convinced Ned to organize against Joffrey, promising the City Guard's support. And then he put a knife to Ned's throat and betrayed him, resulting in Ned's death at Lannister hands. After that, Robb was declared King in the North and the war began in earnest. Chaos is a ladder.




And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162



    Quote:

    Actually I have to agree - it feels like the narrative has moved beyond the need for Littlefinger to come back, so I doubt we'll see it happen.

    Still, he knew Bran was on to him when Bran told him "chaos is a ladder." A short time later, Arya returned to Winterfell, revealed herself as a spooky assassin, and started giving Littlefinger the stink-eye. It would have been in-character for him to leave at that point so he didn't get caught in a trap.

    Leaving would have been difficult (because if he leaves, presumably the Vale leaves with him, which wasn't going to happen). The Faceless Men angle was an elegant way out, even if I doubt it is going to happen. As for the love-for-Sansa motivation to stay - I don't buy it. This is a guy who just married her off to the Boltons. He didn't love Sansa, she was just another pawn on his board.


In his own way, he did love and want her. And since you like chess analogies, yes, she might have been a pawn, but she was the pawn that he aimed to turn into his new queen, having lost his original one (her mother). You don't think that he'd come "rescue" her at some point when he'd feel powerful enough?


    Quote:

    On the contrary, he was a very active instigator of the Stark-Lannister conflict. The death of Jon Arryn brought Ned into King's Landing, as Baelish knew it would. While Ned was Hand, Baelish was actively convincing Ned to commit resources against Tywin in the Riverlands. And in the end, Baelish convinced Ned to organize against Joffrey, promising the City Guard's support. And then he put a knife to Ned's throat and betrayed him, resulting in Ned's death at Lannister hands. After that, Robb was declared King in the North and the war began in earnest. Chaos is a ladder.


It was Robert's death first and foremost that allowed things to get out of hand, followed by Ned's. So I stand by what I said, as those events couldn't have possibly been a realistic part of whatever he had hoped for with the Arryn thing.


Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer


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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162


How could the current season possibly end to accommodate your story, huh?


    Quote:
    Cersei Lannister. Because she is fit as f**k.Keep her as the primary antagonsist. However, allow her to keep the child, so there is a potential line of Lannister villians potentially in charge of the realm.The Mountain remains at her side, as does Qyburn. They are based in Casterly Rock, after the decimation of King's Landing. They retain control of the Westerlands, but are surrounded by enemies.


The only scenario where both Cersei and enemies of hers survive would require all factions to have somehow ended up with zero soldiers and unable to find new ones...


    Quote:
    Sansa Stark. The North has been destroyed, so she has had to be pragmatic and has married Gendry (who is legitimised) to attain power, keep a realm for what remains in the Stormlands. In very shot succession, she has allied with Robin and is passing off her recently born son as Robin's. No one is sure who is the father. Gendry's Hand of the Queen is Davos Seaworth and his Lord Commander is Sandor Celegane who now wields Oathkeeper in respect of it's former owner.


Putting aside that you don't understand the Hound's character, like, at all, how does Sansa end up being Queen and Gendry legitimized? And what's that about having "two fathers" for her child, are you drunk again? Do you even get what's been happening on the show and how things work?


    Quote:
    Edmure Tully rules the Riverlands. Yara Greyjoy rules the Iron Island.
    Sam is the Lord of the Reach, but has been made to marry a Tyrell under Sansa's instruction, which he hugley resents and he continues to see Gully on the sly. The Wildlings farm the reach and there is a strange friendship delveloping between himself and Tormund, who acts as his bodyguard.


The way your fanfic goes, Sam could very well rebel against Sansa if he wanted to, getting Wildlings, Cersei, the Vale and/or Stormlands, plus the imaginary forces of the non-existent House Tyrell...


Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer


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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,715



Yeah, think I changed it from Sansa ruling the Vale with Robin to Sansa ruling Storms End with Gendry.

Regarding the Hound however, I do think he wants to be a knight.He didn't want to be one, because he associated knights withhis brother and didn't like the false nobility etc.

Now, with Brienne providing inspiration for Jaime, she could do it for him as well. I think him picking up his job role as a bodyguard, particularly for Sansa could be character development for him.







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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,715



We know Cleganebowl will happen. Which means Sandor will come to Kings Landing, as part of the final confrontation.

I think some have it right, the Night King with the Dragon will go to Kings Landing.

Sandor faces Gregor. Sandor wins (possibly with help from Arya) but he's so messed up, Arya HAS to kill him and relucatntly, strikes him off her list which would be a neat twist with a name she doesn't want to take off. However, even more poetic, would be if she has to kill him with fire (maybe otherwise he gets ressurected by a wight).

So, I guess Jon has to leave a strike force. I suppose if the Night King is the only White Walker left, then all they have to do is take him out. Doesn't matter how many wights there are. Could actually expect Qyburn to do a deal and he did create Gregor. There is speculation about Cersei being a Night Queen (White Walker?)

Hang on, doesn't Kings Landing still have all that wildfire? Dragons all get incinirated. Dany injured/dead, baby being looked after by the non combatants Sansa and Tyrion?

I'm expecting a lot of fatalities in epsiode 3, but if Night King escapes and Sandor, Jon, Arya and Jaime (he knows the layout) survive then this has got to be the ending.

Probably one or 2 more as the 'strike group', but these would be the core group.

I do think Arya will survive tho.....





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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162


Go away! I haven't even finished with all the other threads that I wanted to reply to, damn ye mrpo !

Bah! I'll come back tomorrow and reply to your new ramblings and post my thoughts about the episode as well...


Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer




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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162






Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer


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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,934


Littlefinger was feeding Ned info about Robert's bastards all through season one, which was leading Ned to the realization that Robert's kids were really Jamie's kids. That put Ned on Cersei's radar and accelerated her murder of the king. Littlefinger really did start it all. He may not have intended for his actions to result in Robert's murder, but he sure didn't mind.

The only cause of the war he didn't influence or predict was Jamie's attack on Bran. But he capitalized on it by helping Joffrey with the second attack on Bran.




And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,613



    Quote:
    Just so zvelf knows, the seed for this thread was actually planted by Unstable Molecule and his reflections on Littlefinger's untimely death below (more on that later).



    Quote:

    So, you are to assume that this is not the final season of the show. Which characters do you choose to keep alive for a next one? They can be as few as you like or up to half the surviving cast, so I would say a max of... 15?



    Quote:
    You can just list your choices and be done with it, but if you have reasons for picking as you will, be my guest. You can even expand and regale us with the details of the roles they would be playing in this next season, the plot they would operate in, etc.


Should Live:

Arya Stark: She’s gone through too much leveling up so to speak to not continue to take advantage of it.

Bran Stark: There must be a Three-Eyed Raven.

Brienne of Tarth: She’ll probably be killed off this season, but she would be good in a sequel, perhaps as head of the Kingsguard.

Bronn: Westeros isn’t done with him yet.

Daenerys Targaryen: A sequel needs dragons and only Daenerys has them.

Ghost: What would a sequel be without dire wolves?

Hot Pie: His string of cameos should continue.

Jon Snow: He’s already died. Killing him again is anticlimactic. He’s also the hero and more stories could easily be told with him.

Lyanna Mormont: Seeing her as a grown woman would be a treat.

Missandei: She would be useful for any venture into Essos. She’s also the hottest woman on the show.

Podrick Payne: It would be amusing if he became as great a warrior as he is a lover, but he would be easy to kill off this season.

Robin Arryn: Seeing how he turned out as an adult could be interesting.

Sansa Stark: Her arc is not yet complete, but she’s the least essential of the surviving Starks.

Samwell Tarly: He still needs to lord it over the Citadel after the sh*t show they put him through.

Tormund Giantsbane: The Free Folk needs a leader and he’s all they’ve got.

Tyrion Lannister: The most popular character needs to be in the sequel.

Varys: His predicted doom can occur in the sequels.

Yara Greyjoy: Someone has to lead the Iron Islands.


Should Die:

Beric Dondarrion: Casualty of war with the White Walkers

Cersei Lannister: The lead villain goes down.

Davos Seaworth: This is the one people won’t see coming.

Dolorous Edd: With the Wall downed, there’s no more Night’s Watch and so no Commander is now needed.

Euron Greyjoy: Are you kidding me?

Gilly: She is how Sam will experience loss beyond losing his tormenting father and oblivious brother

Grey Worm: Casualty of war with the White Walkers

The Hound: His arc has ever seemed a tragic one.

Jaime Lannister: He kills his sister, then bites it.

Jorah Mormont: His devotion to Dany means sacrificing his life for her.

Melisandre: She has no future role to play.

The Mountain: The lead villain’s lead henchman goes down.

The Night King: The other lead villain goes down.

Theon Greyjoy: His final act of redemption is his giving up his life to save Bran.





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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162


...his opportunistic actions as those of a mastermind that had foreseen it all from day 1.

As I said, he was obviously just going with the flow, not orchestrating every major event that escalated things to open war. And even if I can't convince you about the opening Lannister-Stark war, he could not have possibly expected the factions and forces that are currently the major players on Westeros. Even if you take the NK out, Cersei and Jon ended up in power by impossible events, and, to my best recollection, more importantly, Daenerys is not there because of anything he did.

If you wanna talk about important characters that actually deserved to be there for the Iron Throne stuff, Tywin more or less started it all...


Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer


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Drax the Legend


Member Since: Thu Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 13,162


...everyone who's anyone from the good guys to survive O\:\-\) !


    Quote:
    Bronn: Westeros isn’t done with him yet.


Yes, it still owes him a castle!


    Quote:
    Daenerys Targaryen: A sequel needs dragons and only Daenerys has them.


What about that "My-name-is-Aegon-Targaryen" guy, huh?


    Quote:
    Sansa Stark: Her arc is not yet complete, but she’s the least essential of the surviving Starks.


Au contraire! She is the most essential of the surviving Starks! She's practically the only real Stark left, as the rest have all turned into non-Starks and weirdos, zvelf!


Anyway, from what I see, you would have a lot of the cast survive for a new season, but the baddies wiped clean to open room for fresh storylines and threats. It's probably what I would go for myself, though I don't care for most of the remaining good guys either, so outside of Jon, Daenerys, Tormund, Bronn, the Hound, Brianne, and maybe, just maybe, Edd, everyone else is free to go, I guess...


Drax the Legend, Captain of the Fist, The Starwalker, The Jade Slayer


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