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Ancient One 

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And I laughed, and laughed, and laughed.

I honestly think that Russ is trolling Chibnall and the current production team now.

Will you excuse me? I have to go and chuckle some more.

Thank you.

https://screenrant.com/doctor-who-animated-show-regeneration-retcon-timeless-child/


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Daveym

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 40,300



It's something that is just a bit of fun, as you say him trolling Chibnall and the fandom. But there is a sector of the fandom that takes absolutely everything literally, including this, and I am sure Davies knows it!

He reminds me of Robert Holmes in this, their humour is the same, and Holmes too enjoyed a bit of ribbing of both his script-editors and viewers. ;\)


[It's worth bearing in mind here that for all his occasional modern comments and bowing to the media's questions on the current regime Davies, himself was very much a traditionalist where Doctor Who was concerned, his reign honoured the canon and he didn't show any interest in undermining or subverting it. That began with Steven Moffatt... and it has not ended alas.
Davies' was progressive in his approach to the series, always mindful of the mass audience, and kept any use of old continuity to a minimum. But he didn't have any interest in subverting or discarding the character or the shows well established rules and 'science'...]



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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:

    It's something that is just a bit of fun, as you say him trolling Chibnall and the fandom. But there is a sector of the fandom that takes absolutely everything literally, including this, and I am sure Davies knows it!


Oh, he knows it all right. I think he just doesn't care any more, judging by his recent twitter comments.

I think he fully realises that all his hard work in rebuilding the show has been well and truly undermined. Not just undermined, but actively demolished. He knows the BBC has driven Doctor Who down a one way street from which it can't return.

And, there being nothing he can do to fix it, he's quietly taken to playing them at their own game. Deliberately making things worse.

As a fan, I daresay he wants this incarnation of the show dead and gone as much as anybody.



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Daveym

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    I think he fully realises that all his hard work in rebuilding the show has been well and truly undermined. Not just undermined, but actively demolished. He knows the BBC has driven Doctor Who down a one way street from which it can't return.

I had never thought of it from that angle, you make an interesting comment.

While I have always felt both Davies and Moffatt might not rate Chris Chibnall in private I have never given real thought as to what Davies himself might think about the show since he handed it over... as you rightly say it was his work and success that revived it, he left it in terrific shape with an open future and no real baggage weighing it down thanks to the Time-War drawing a line under the past, and all his successor had to do was keep the wheels turning and carry on.
Steven Moffatt made it heavy going, a clever inventive writer yes, but always trying to go one better on himself and make it more and more clever, TOO clever. Really his one fault is that he stayed too long and his approach to the show began to add far too much weight and heavy narrative.

But as Davies looked on these last ten years you do have a valid point - what might he really be thinking....? He kept it simple. Straight-forward. Accessible to the mass audience. Populist. His successors on the other hand, no. I think you said here last week that an important aspect to the shows success s that it was never really about the Doctor and his past, it was about the story he found himself in this week. And that is absolutely spot on - Since Moffatt the series began to explore him and his secrets, it started revisiting old continuity and characters for stories, it moved the companions away from being ordinary people to being extraordinary from the first, and perhaps one of the worst decisions - it negated the Time-War and its effects.

From Davies' perspective you do have to wonder what he does really feel about the current state of affairs yes.



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,337


Would you like to see the Dr become like a wolfman?


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,337


Last really good Dr were david and matt!


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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    Last really good Dr were david and matt!


Have to disagree with this.

Eccleston was excellent. The only reason his Doctor isn't more highly regarded is he only did one series. And the FIRST series at that, when the production team was still finding it's feet in terms of style and storytelling.

Capaldi had the greatest potential of all the modern Doctors. An older actor with the experience and the gravitas the part needs. His problem was that the showrunner was losing his way at that time, and as a consequence Capaldi never got any great material to work with.

But they were both just as good as Tennant and Smith in their own ways.


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Ancient One 

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    Quote:
    Would you like to see the Dr become like a wolfman?


No. It's a disastrously bad idea.

And Russell T knows it. That's why he's put it out there, I believe.


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Jeff m.


Member Since: Mon Jan 13, 2020
Posts: 107


That's a good point.

Here's another one, maybe.

It wasn't just Davies who started it out but Julie Gardner as producer.

Unlike Davies and Moffat she had no connection to the old show, and made sure it was accessible to new viewers, and reeled in Russel T when he went too deep into the old continuity bin.

I loved the craziness of the Moffat years, but I'm an old Who fan.

I think the balance between Davies and Gardner was a better overall combination.


Jeff
www.dogfoodforchairs.com




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,337


The first one that you mentioned seemed to be angry all time, while other one seemed to be like in "grumpy Grandpa" mode!


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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    The first one that you mentioned seemed to be angry all time, while other one seemed to be like in "grumpy Grandpa" mode!


Yes. He was the one fresh out of the Time War. Newly regenerated. Angry at the Daleks, and angry at himself for his (Erroneous) belief that he'd killed his own race. The idea was that he'd start off bitter and angry at the universe, but that Rose would help bring him round and get him back on track. It was an idea meant to develop over several series, but got cut short due to Ecclestone's premature departure.

When Tennant took over, they couldn't make his Doctor exactly like the previous one. There has to be a contrast for it to work. So Tennant's Doctor is more accessible right off the bat. But... you still see a lot of that anger there. "I'm so old now. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning. This is it". And it manifests in some very un-Doctor-like behaviour, such as his arbitrary torture and murder of the Family of Blood.

Capaldi was poorly written right from the get go. First off, there's nothing wrong with a 'grumpy old man' Doctor. If you write it well, and give the character the support it needs, it works well. Hartnell, Pertwee and arguably both Bakers played it perfectly. But then, they were helped by good scripts and a clear idea of what the Doctor needs to be.

Moffat never seemed to grasp what to do with Capaldi's Doctor. Sometimes he was emotionally distant, sometimes he showed intense emotion. Sometimes he was written as an older man, sometimes as a younger man. Moffat never gave us a clear line through to who this Doctor was.

And he never gave us a clear line to the stories either. The plots were either paper thin or overly dense. Often they'd start well, but fell apart in the third act.

Capaldi did his best, but was hampered at every turn by the quality of the scripts.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,337


Think was really interesting interplay between Him as new Dr and companion, as forced to go right from lover interest to his daughter!


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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,191



    Quote:
    Think was really interesting interplay between Him as new Dr and companion, as forced to go right from lover interest to his daughter!


Agreed. You can get some great interactions when companions bridge Doctors. Although while Moffat did write SOME nice stuff there, I don't think he handled it particularly well.

Part of the reason I could never engage 100% with the 2005 reboot was Russel T's tendency to write the Doctor as a human with super powers rather than as a Time Lord who hung out with humans. Moffat continued to look at the Doctor this way when writing the Smith Doctor, but when it came to Capaldi, he couldn't quite seem to write the Doctor any other way. He tried, but didn't manage to pull it off.

Clara should have been the only one conflicted in that relationship after the regeneration. He's now a much older man, but she's still attracted to 'him'. What does she do?

The Doctor however has seen it all before. He's been there, seen it, done it and got the t-shirt. He should have immediately pulled back from the relationship, become a little more aloof to Clara.

I always thought they missed a bet with Danny Pink. They should have brought him on board the TARDIS quicker, and kept him there longer. Now THAT would have been a great dynamic: Clara conflicted over the Doctor, conflicted between the Doctor and Danny, Danny in love with Clara but unsure of her because of her feelings for the Doctor, and not fully trusting of the Doctor himself. The Doctor for his part should have stepped back more into the role of 'team leader'.

Much has been made of Capaldi's resemblance to both the Hartnell and (especially) the Pertwee Doctors, but I think given his personality and his qualities as an actor, they could have pushed him closer to the McCoy Doctor - A master manipulator moving pieces on a chess board, and using Clara and Danny as his pawns. Well, not pawns. Knights, maybe.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,337


I just think that the most interesting aspect of the peter Dr was when the Master had her gender changed, and ut seems that there was chemistry between the two of them!


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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,191



    Quote:
    I just think that the most interesting aspect of the peter Dr was when the Master had her gender changed, and ut seems that there was chemistry between the two of them!


They could easily have substituted the Rani, or a Romana whose regeneration hadn't quite worked out, and the story would have worked just as well.

That was one of the first steps down to the mess the show's in today.


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