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Iron Man Unit 007

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First we should be so lucky, but more importantly how should it be done


1. A year or two hiatus and then resume with a male Doc 14

2. This whole franchise wrecking storyline is revealed as a sinister plan by the Master and/or the Valeyard and possibly Rassilon? Or the Black Guardian?

3. They pull a Dallas on us and state it was all dream, perhaps a fever dream Doc 12 suffered after he was de fibrillated by the TARDIS, which means his meeting with Doc 1 was part of it and thus negated and wiping out the bad characterization of Doc 1 and the era of female Doc 13?

4. Similar to #3 but instead of a Dallas, they say that Doc 12 was thinking of becoming a woman and the TARDIS gave him a vision of how things could go if that happened. The TARDIS clearly knows things that Doc doesn't and has a greater sense of time and space, so why not? or perhaps the White Guardian inflicts this vision on him as he felt that Doc's spirits needed a boost given his refusal to regenerate at first.

Bottom line: no matter how they do it, the BBC will have to eat a lot of crow and garbage as they work to recover the show and the fanbase.

So bring back a male Doctor, and also have David Tennant be the new Master and lets get the series going again.


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Daveym

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    Bottom line: no matter how they do it, the BBC will have to eat a lot of crow and garbage as they work to recover the show and the fanbase.



    Quote:
    So bring back a male Doctor, and also have David Tennant be the new Master and lets get the series going again.


On balance a show (and genre) as expensive and complex to produce as Doctor Who is always going to be dependent on financial assistance from elsewhere, the BBC can't do it alone, and their financial allocations for Television production today is well known as being ever more tighter and only ever getting moreso - in this multi-media digital age where television broadcast is almost unrecognisable to where it was just 25 years ago things are only ever going to get more competitive and more commercial in outlook, and the BBC itself even (begrudgingly) admits to this reality.
So the future for Doctor Who is likely co-production, one way or the other. We have seen ratings for Doctor Who virtually implode in America thanks to the BBCs introduction of the female-doctor and some diabolically bad decisions allround, but given the show has importance to the BBC (it is one of the very few assets it own outright and is commercially lucrative) I do agree that some heavy rethinking will have to take place sooner or later, and if the property is to be revived and resold to an American audience some backtracking to what actually appealed to that audience in the first place will be vital... because America is where the money will be coming from to help produce Doctor Who in the future. It's where the series has had its most faithful following and success overseas.

To save the current era, you would need a miracle. The fundamental problem lay in bad choices all the way along, and the fact that they never understood or appreciated the dynamics that made the series actually work. The alchemy between its characters, their relationship to the other, and the needs for an action hero at the center of it who could and would appeal to the female demographic - not for nothing was the Russell Davies era so appealing to the female and family audience... even Steven Moffat understood the importance of that need to appeal to and preserve the link to the female audience.





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Iron Man Unit 007

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Yes a major rethink is needed, similar to back in the late 80's when Hasbro was forced to rethink things and do a major retcon/revival for Optimus Prime as the concept of Rodimus Prime failed due to bad execution and the trauma of the kids that saw Op die.


Doctor Who is now in a similar position. The concept of a female Doctor worked on paper, but the execution in terms of story and chemistry with the cast has failed. A female Doctor might have worked if they perhaps went more like how Sarah Connor was in T2, all action or Sigourney Weaver in Aliens (Alien 2).

But they didn't. Then they give us this whackadoo story about the Doc always being a woman and retconning the core concepts. THAT is where fans of both original run, and relaunch era Doc 9 to 12 can say they have been traumatized. Not because Doc is female now but because of the stories.

So, 13 is indeed an unlucky number for the franchise. One almost thinks they are doing this story based on that she is #13 and that #14 will bring the luck back, but I dont think Chibnall is that clever, and I say this having rewatched the first season of Doc 13 and will not watch the second season again.

However, IF this was revealed to be some crazy scheme of the Master, Rassilon, Valeyard, or the Black Guardian or some combo thereof then that would be going back to the continuity and history that we remember and love and could restore things.

The White Guardian did warn Doc 5 that in the future Doc would have to fight the Black Guardian again. The Black Guardian loves acting through agents, can appear in whatever form he wants, and is a master of deceit.

Black Guardian as the prime opponent in all this would make sense. If the Black Guardian was using the Master as his agent that would also make sense. Perhaps they have obtained the Key to Time and are messing with time and history on a universal scale and the White Guardian is powerless to stop them and needs Doc 13 to wake up and realize things.

Chibnall is rewriting the series, but the Black/White Guardians and Key to Time can be the big red reset button.

OR: Doc 12 in his last fight with the Cybermen was taken captive and is plugged into their systems where they are trying to get his knowledge and the whole Doc 13 thing is a massive Matrix-style construct they are using to keep him occupied.

OR: The TARDIS has revived Doc 12, he is going through his previous personalities after awakening and does refuse to change and the White Guardian is showing him how things COULD go if Doc 12 doesn't cheer up a bit and regenerate. Perhaps as a warning that the Black Guardian is messing with him. Then Doc 13 wakes up to reality, and it turns out that 12 hadn't regenerated yet, that his meeting Doc 1 was actually arranged by the White Guardian so that Doc 12 could get his mind right, and then Black Guardian stepped in and had been messing with Doc 12's mind and that whole era of Doc 13 and all adventures/retcons were a giant illusion by the Black Guardian.

Only Rassilon would have motivation to attack the Doctor, the rest of Gallifrey was grateful to Doc 12 for saving them in the Time War.


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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,517




    Quote:

    Doctor Who is now in a similar position. The concept of a female Doctor worked on paper, but the execution in terms of story and chemistry with the cast has failed. A female Doctor might have worked if they perhaps went more like how Sarah Connor was in T2, all action or Sigourney Weaver in Aliens (Alien 2).



    Quote:
    But they didn't. Then they give us this whackadoo story about the Doc always being a woman and retconning the core concepts. THAT is where fans of both original run, and relaunch era Doc 9 to 12 can say they have been traumatized. Not because Doc is female now but because of the stories.


Yes, because the Doctor is female.

The very SECOND Jodie was revealed as the new Doctor, fans began packing their cases and booking tickets on the first train out of town. That was it. They were done.

Within minutes of the reveal, my phone started ringing, and receiving texts. And when I got home later that evening my E-Mail inbox was flooded with mail, a good deal of which was negative. That was confirmed to me as I watched social media over the next few months.

Doctor Who was dead before we'd seen one single solitary clip of Jodie in 'action'.


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Daveym

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



The Death of Doctor Who is clear to see yes, but the process is still ongoing. Even though the BBC and Chris Chibnall were convinced that their vision for the character and the series was going to win all-new audience demographics of minorities and young girls who were apparently turned off by the series featuring a leading man rather than a woman their logic and professionalism has been shown as being completely lacking in the event - as not only did those demographics never turn up, it is quite clear they never. even. existed!
But that's just one aspect. The colossal fall in the ratings and public support throughout the first season and then the second season is unprecedented for any past new Doctor and Producer, here Chris Chibnall and Jodie Whittaker must both shoulder the blame as neither have been remotely good enough to ever make Doctor Who a success. When the standout person on the team turns out to be light-entertainment host Bradley Walsh it is time to pause and reflect on the reasons as to how and why that can be... the hard fact being he has shown to all that he is simply THAT good an actor and professional talent that he has shown the utter inadequacy and lack of passion and investment in all those around him - out of the lot of them he was the only one putting the effort in. And that's what shined through on the screen. He delivers a complete performance, an actors performance. A true character actor at work.

But all of that aside the reality is that this regime has nowhere to hide from its responsibilities. The BBC, Chris Chibnall, and Jodie Whittaker, they all must take the blame for killing Doctor Who.
Their choices and their lack of ability is what has been responsible for a near total collapse in support for the series both at home and overseas, and it is still ongoing. Just TWO seasons in and the series has not yet bottomed out, or even reached the bottom! By the time Chibnall and Whittaker do leave the series they steered and boasted about in the run-up to series 11, it will be beyond saving, as quite clearly there will be insufficient support or ratings to sustain its viability or allow a resuscitation by that point.

And it is all on them. All of them.



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


He has the right concept though, in that the BBC has to get out of this sinking titanic the sooner the better!

Best approach would indeed be see it play out as some kind of Hoax or illusion, and maybe just hav e it as part of ther master plan of the David tenet Human time Lord clone who figured out the lie way before this, and decided to have his plan to devastate the time lords come to pass!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Think AMC has part ownereship in the BBC, just have them complete the deal and buy them out, and move the DR over here on the other side of your Pond!

The Dr meeting rick Grimes!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


The same result could very well happen to next 007, as James Bond by by, and female 007 now!


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Daveym

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



I can only suggest the most likely strategy would be for them to eventually 'rest' the show and let the dust settle...

I have no real doubt that this next series will Be Jodie Whittaker's last, whether she likes it or not, and the BBC go for one last roll of the dice with a new actress selected in the hopes of saving the Corporations face.
But one of the fundamental problems with the female-Doctor concept is that it has yet to tackle the problem of the Doctor/Companion dynamic, it has to find a way to make it work and make it appeal. And I believe that that is easier said than done.

The reality is it has already failed. The show needs a minor miracle, it would need a new Producer/writer with the Midas touch and an intuitive grasp of how to structure this style of genre television and the talent to make the characters sing... great casting would be essential as well.

The odds of all of these things happening however, are remote indeed.



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Only bring back either david or matt as another Dr would salvage the show!


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llozymandias


Member Since: Fri Jul 19, 2013
Posts: 136



    Quote:
    The same result could very well happen to next 007, as James Bond by by, and female 007 now!



So far it looks like James Bond will still be a guy. It's just that a female agent will succeed him as 007.






John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


true, but if they kill off james Bond, won't the female 007 become that then?


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Daveym

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



I think a great problem with Doctor Who today is that it is of a very specialist genre (science fiction/fantasy) of which British television Producers/Directors/Writers/schedulers aren't really educated about or trained on how to produce. There's an additional problem as well as many in the industry likely do still turn their nose up at the genre and consider it inferior, that or the are afraid of it... as the great Philip Hinchcliffe has pointed out when commenting on his time on the show - "This was the show that could find you out." It would test the mettle and capabilities of the people who worked on it and show their limits, expose their lack of grit and ability to handle anything other than straightforward basic drawing room drama's.

Unlike America the British talent pool for genre television production like this show requires is very small, there are very very few people with either the training, the aptitude, or the will to take on such a unique show and be understanding and capable enough to meet its challenges. And this is why the BBC ended up with little alternative but to target Chris Chibnall. They believed he was the best choice in a drought of candidates as he had already experience with he series and had Producer credits to suggest he might handle it.

I suspect the reality is there is either no one out there who wants the job running the show, or the ones who do raise their hands are the type of candidates who simply don't have the obvious experience and skillsets required. In a real sense this is one factor that shows just how flawed and unworkable the concept on the one-man Showrunner actually is... there are precious few talents who are as willing and capable of driving Doctor Who forward as Russell Davies and Steven Moffat very demonstrably were. \(coffee\)



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Think that the Star trek Franchise gives to us the blueprint to having a successful Sci Fi show, as they have had multiple shows and series, and pretty much have kept a solid core of writers, crerw, producers, and directors to keep moving forward the ongoing saga of the USS Enterprise!


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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,517



    Quote:
    Think that the Star trek Franchise gives to us the blueprint to having a successful Sci Fi show, as they have had multiple shows and series, and pretty much have kept a solid core of writers, crerw, producers, and directors to keep moving forward the ongoing saga of the USS Enterprise!


Even that's all in the past now.

Discovery and Picard have been dreadful.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


yes, as the latest show seems to be like what they did to the Dr franchise, just trashing prior continuity!


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llozymandias


Member Since: Fri Jul 19, 2013
Posts: 136



    Quote:
    true, but if they kill off james Bond, won't the female 007 become that then?



Become what, exactly?






John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.
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