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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Following Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's child's birth. Meghan who is of mixed race.

So, Danny Baker apparently submitted a black and white picture of a chimpanzee dressed in a suit with the caption 'royal baby leaves hospital'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7015969/Danny-Baker-tweeted-royal-baby-two-days-posting-racist-monkey-tweet.html

Danny has said no intention of racism, it was the spectacle of class and the media fixated on an unimportant matter.

Inititally, I was sympathetic and thought it was unintentional. On reflection, I think that position was a bit naive.

Why a chimpanzee? The picture isn't of royals. There is no real link between class, media attention etc. There has always been distasteful links between black people and apes from racists. Even if not explicit, I expect that this influenced Danny subconsiously to chose that video. The fact that he then goes on to pretend he didn't even realise that it was Meghan who had given birth doesn't hold up. He's a veteran presenter for crying out loud.

Consequently Danny was fired by the BBC and is now facing a police investigation.





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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,020


I can see getting fired...but why the police investigation...that I don't get....was there more?


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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



No, a complaint was made by a member of the public - presumably malicious communication, which is a criminal offence.

Not sure if it meets the threshold for a criminal conviction, but in theory the police have to investigate every complaint and given the profile of it, hence why they are being a bit speedy investigating it.





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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,020


I mean his career and social standing are ruined. But going any further than firing him just seems nuts. I mean we get terrorists (of all nationalities and religions) not being investigated and this guy is just an idiot at best and non-violent racist at worst...money better spent elsewhere. His life is in the crapper now anyways...he's going to suffer plenty.


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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



Yeah, Danny is aged about 61, I think.

His career wouldn't have much further mileage to go, so in a way it's not actually that much damaging to him. His best days were nearly 20 years ago.

Was he an idiot? Was he being racist subconsciously? Did he lie afterward and act like a prat? Yes.

Intentional racism? Probably not.

I doubt, this will meet the prosecution threshold of the CPS. However, the Met need to be seen investigating a complaint of racism from a 'celebrity' presenter.







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Bootch 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,166


Danny Baker said that it wasn't meant to be racist and I think we have to take him at his word. When I seem a chimpanzee, I don't think "that's a black person". It's the person who does see a chimp and thinks it's a black person who is probably racist.

The media frenzy for a good social shaming annoys me. They are like sharks who smell blood in the water.

My friend made a post on Facebook saying "Shame on you, Danny!" Then she said that she had never listened to his show and didn't really know him.
She just got off on presenting herself as virtuous by casting "shame" on him.

Everyone is or has been a bit racist at some time or other and it seems to me that it's hypocritical to go on a witch hunt.
Like Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!" (or some such).







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Trent Trueheart


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 802



    Quote:
    Danny Baker said that it wasn't meant to be racist and I think we have to take him at his word. When I seem a chimpanzee, I don't think "that's a black person". It's the person who does see a chimp and thinks it's a black person who is probably racist.


I hate this argument. I don't have to be a racist to understand the history of racist tropes. Racists have long compared black people to apes, or used blackface to make fun of them. I don't understand why in 2019 people would be unaware of the racist history of such things. These aren't obscure facts. I just hate that people try to blame their "ignorance" on their actions.

On the other hand, they may be used more in the US than the UK. I'm sure they have been used in the UK, but I don't know enough about racial issues in the UK to say if they are still used there or how widespread they may be. Still, people should educate themselves on this sort of thing.


    Quote:
    The media frenzy for a good social shaming annoys me. They are like sharks who smell blood in the water.



    Quote:
    My friend made a post on Facebook saying "Shame on you, Danny!" Then she said that she had never listened to his show and didn't really know him.
    She just got off on presenting herself as virtuous by casting "shame" on him.

    Everyone is or has been a bit racist at some time or other and it seems to me that it's hypocritical to go on a witch hunt.
    Like Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!" (or some such).





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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,020


I have wondered and mostly agree on how can you NOT know this was a racist characture....but...sometimes people really don't know.

He's 60 so it doesn't fly...but I know when I was 16 and working with some people of color they called me boy (light heartedly) and I called them that back thinking hey I am one of the guys working here they like me...it took a few moments to smooth over my non-intended my offensive as they put it language.

Still...I don't thin a police investigation is money well spent...he screwed up and lost his job already.


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Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,166



    Quote:
    I hate this argument. I don't have to be a racist to understand the history of racist tropes. Racists have long compared black people to apes, or used blackface to make fun of them. I don't understand why in 2019 people would be unaware of the racist history of such things. These aren't obscure facts. I just hate that people try to blame their "ignorance" on their actions.


In the UK, we have a history of using chimpanzees for comedy purposes. For example, in the 80's there was a long-running series of television adverts in which chimps were used to advertise PG Tips (a tea product) in which they would do things like take furniture upstairs and then have a cup of tea and a rest.
Seeing a chimp dressed as a human seems very much along those lines, rather than racism, I think.








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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



There was a black soldier who got bullied in the army. He had a Sgt leave him bananas on his desk.

Particuarly with Danny's background and age, he knew of the racisit historical issues.





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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,680


I have no clue who this is. He did something stupid and got the axe. Seems racist to me.





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Incriptus


Location: Incriptus
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,528


I guess it all depends on where you choose to draw the line right, assuming we even consider the two things different any more.

I'd guess most of us would support an investigation as to which category it falls in. If it was Column A we would want to educate. If pattern emerges we may want to censure them. If it resulted in actual damage there should be compensation. If it was column B then there should be punishment.

While I don't know this particular fellow's story ... but I do feel that sometimes people are jumping straight to the execution stage.




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Butthead2


Member Since: Tue Oct 24, 2017
Posts: 692


There is nothing wrong with this picture at all. I see no racism and it is sad that these dam liberals all over the world have to use the race card now for everything. I think that picture is funny as hell and he had every right to make a joke and publish it. The Australian Newspaper also had every right to publish the Serena Williams picture that so many people got upset over. South Park does that kind of stuff all the time. I felt the NFL players who disrespected the American flag deserved to be fired far more then Danny Baker. A police investigation over a funny picture that is nothing but satire? Give me a break. I could care less about Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. MAGA


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Dragon Red


Member Since: Fri Jul 05, 2013
Posts: 1,173


I think he probably didn't appreciate the scope of what he was doing. I cannot imagine he would have done it otherwise, because as he has now found out, its basically he's committed career suicide. He's finished.

A lot of people have decided he's a racist. And worse, he's been racist about the new baby in the Royal family. Police investigation is over the top, and if it was the BBC that called the police in, I hope they get charged with wasting police time. Utterly ridiculous. They have sacked him, he's publicly apologised for it, that should be the end of it. There are politicians who did far worse and are currently walking free as birds! (Expenses fraud anybody?) What Baker did was naff all by comparisons.




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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



The criminal threshold has not been met.

As far as I am aware it was a private citizen, not the BBC who made the original complaint.





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Thurisaz


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,124


About a people who continue to lavish praise, wealth and attention on a small group of people based solely on the circumstances of their birth who get outraged over perceived inequalities.


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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



A left wing, INTP, anti-monarchist graduate.

Not exactly your run of the mill squaddie.

Besides, Harry is now, what, 6th in line for the throne?





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Thurisaz


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,124


I was speaking to the country as a whole not you in particular. I'm always in disbelief such an archaic tradition still exists. Though, even more stunned that people from other countries care at all what English royalty is up to. I can't imagine a more irrelevant topic.


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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



When I was in Iraq, I was in an o groupm when the OCtold us some 'good news' that Prine Harry may be joining us (he didn't, as the press got wind).

I moaned, as having a potential heir in theatre would have made all our lives more difficult.





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Dragon Red


Member Since: Fri Jul 05, 2013
Posts: 1,173



    Quote:
    I was speaking to the country as a whole not you in particular. I'm always in disbelief such an archaic tradition still exists.


Some traditions are pointless and even unethical especially if they involve inflicting harm on another. But other traditions are so ingrained in ones cultural identity that to do away with such tradition is to destroy what makes that people unique.


    Quote:
    I can't imagine a more irrelevant topic.


I can... Donald Trump.

And that's been discussed to death and back on this forum.


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Thurisaz


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,124




    Quote:
    I can... Donald Trump.



    Quote:
    And that's been discussed to death and back on this forum.


More nauseating perhaps but certainly not irrelevant. Trump does wield actual power making him relevant whether you like it or not.




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atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,153





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fearcalypse 

INfinity and BEyond

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,229








"James told me there's an old saying here on Earth: May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.
Not sure if Turian heaven is the same as yours, but if this thing goes sideways and we both end up there, meet me at the bar."


Legion: "They will exterminate your species because their gods tell them to. You cannot negotiate with them. They do not share your pity, remorse, or fear."
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Butthead2


Member Since: Tue Oct 24, 2017
Posts: 692


Hopefully Harry never gets to the throne.


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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,547



Any member of the public, my next door neighbour, the weirdo from down the street, a CEO, a road sweeper etc can put in a complaint.

Because there were repercusions, a broadcaster involved in a public spat, the the police were always going to investigate, particualy as it involved a 'protected characterstic' such as race, sex etc.

The police have done the bare minimum expected off them. Otherwise, they would end up trying to justify why they didn't investigate.







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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,680


I mean the secret service looks into a fair number of comments about the president. Usually only the ones that promise or insinuate violence.

Britain just may be more strict, I guess.

It was in bad taste overall, the police being involved seems extreme to me.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,845


It's 2019. We can stop the "unintentional" bs about 20-30 years ago. Everybody knows it's intentional and extremely malicious.




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Butthead2


Member Since: Tue Oct 24, 2017
Posts: 692


Even if it was intentional and extremely malicious he still had every right to create that picture and publish it. I thought that picture was great and I laugh every time I see it. The liberals cannot stop stuff like that from being created. MAGA


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fearcalypse 

INfinity and BEyond

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,229








"James told me there's an old saying here on Earth: May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.
Not sure if Turian heaven is the same as yours, but if this thing goes sideways and we both end up there, meet me at the bar."


Legion: "They will exterminate your species because their gods tell them to. You cannot negotiate with them. They do not share your pity, remorse, or fear."
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HammerTime


Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 3,686


We need another world war so the world’s condition matches the severity of its outrage from fat, basement dwellers who have miserable lives and therefore ruin it for everyone else.

Every time I disagree with something Trump does and am willing to bend to the left just a little, it quickly vanishes when I’m reminded daily that egg shell people exist and Trump is the perfect man to make their lives more miserable.



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